What you describe here is alien to what I observed in China. I am suggesting that the forces driving these campaigns for vaccination are not necessarily Chinese, and that Chinese are the victims. I also think there is reason to believe that the vaccines in China are less dangerous than in Europe or Japan. But there is no doubt that access is restricted for those who do not have vaccinated status--whether that means actual vaccination or not is another matter. Many working class people suffer.
The whole of the 3d war with ionising of the atmosphere is important. They are all trying to compete and appear to all be throwing their populations under the bus. I do thank you for your perspective on this. There are factions fighting within factions in all of these countries. We will win this. Even the most powerful and rich know they too will be sacrificed if the predators so wish to make it happen.
The debate over the future of China, represented here by Roberts and Pastreich, is not new, because, lacking hard evidence, there is considerable basis nonetheless for both sides. It began with the Nixon/Rockefeller/Kissinger opening to China, which benefited both China and Western transnational capital, but also carried risks for China of the Western financial and IT penetration that Pastreich describes. His description is plausible because it represents a process/playbook of Western imperial dominance that has occurred many times, updated in recent years with Information Technology. The same conflict is happening in Russia and other major global actors, like Iran and India. So, I think the debate is far from over, and that this exchange is therefore welcome. The risk is to take a hard line, for example Pepe Escobar's articles, in which the internal problems of actors in the emerging multipolar world are ignored, and Russia and China can do no wrong.
What a great and lively discussion. I appreciate your outline of the two opposing viewpoints in the article. I have noticed this too, and spend a good chunk of my 'background processing' trying to see the truth of the world before us. I had an office in Guangdong province from 2016 to 2018, and currently have several business associates still in the Shenzhen and Shanghai areas. I can relay without a doubt that forced quarantines are still real, daily PCR tests did happen, and that restriction of movement 'forced' many people into taking the vaccine. Many people fed themselves by organizing Wechat groups within their condo-complexes, so that vaccinated food-shop delivery people could enter their barred-and-guarded buildings. They were not allowed to leave. Mandatory 10 or 14 day restriction for a positive test, which we all know are about 50% wonky anyway. Wide variation of procedures depending on region.
Note that Sinovac was NOT mRNA...although i still wouldn't inject into my body, at least what the Chinese govt. / pharma produced was based on 'normal' vaccine methods. Also notable, a colleague in Shanghai who is currently restricted to her condo and suffering from Covid, is being given Paracetomol, and told by her doctor that Covid is just "a type of Flu." My belief is that this change of messaging is the govt. response to keeping the peace. Whether they didn't know until now, or had some other agenda, is difficult for me to speculate.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
There is arguably some truth to the overall analogy. However, a number of details are false, and in particular this statement which colors much of the article:
"The dystopian world that Whitehead describes in China, is beyond dispute."
Perhaps not in your part of the world, but that's only because there is no apparent interest in the Chinese reality. Instead, the China projection is based on random videos posted to Twitter plus an endless series of smears and lies in the official media. The truth: That dystopia is ~90% projection targeting Westerners, not Chinese.
Just to cite one detail you mention: Not only is vaccination not obligatory in China, China is the only industrialized country where it is actually illegal to coerce someone through whatever means into agreeing to vaccination.
For those interested to hear a Chinese perspective, we did a few deep dives on this topic last year:
And? Were your sources forcibly injected? Or forbidden access to various buildings due to their vaccination status, as was the norm in Europe? Not only have I never encountered such a situation anywhere in China, I have never even been asked about vaccination status by anyone. Moreover, for some reason a number of friends, colleagues, relatives and acquaintances seem to have had similar experiences. In our Shanghai office around half declined the injections. None have experienced any repercussions that I am aware of.
I make no moral judgement about China, it is an empire... Xi is no president, he is an emperor chosen like the old Mongolian Khanate, by mandarins and potentates.
None (those who have refused vaccinations) have experienced any repercussions that you are aware of... Or, you are lying about... Somebody who says they're from China on the internet must have permission to be here... and are saying what they are told to say.
There is only one place in China I have great reverence for, and that is Shaolin. Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism. This is the Mao Dynasty for the time being. Dynasties come and go.
Very interesting take, thank you. It's so difficult to get these kinds of deeper insights into Asian politics without having to deal with one of the two camps of biases you mentioned. I really appreciate your perspective, please keep going.
I agree that the current Pfizer campaign resembles the Opium wars, but you then present sensational allegations about Western infiltration into Chinese governance without a shred of evidence.
What are your sources for your claim that, "China is subject to a massive campaign to destroy governance and to create a docile population subject to the whims of faceless powers who hide behind online systems masquerading as “government.” But that “communist government” turns out to be, if you scratch the surface, private contractors, Israeli, Japanese, American and other IT and intelligence firms, who have set up shop across China at the local level and are seizing control of government by privatizing all functions of government, using COVID-19 as the wedge to force everything online"?
Thank you for the comment. I suppose I could have put in a comment like "as related to me by a Chinese individual who wishes to be anonymous" or "I saw parallels between what is being done by Israeli IT firms in the US with what I observed over three weeks in China." But yes, the sort of concrete evidence I obviously do not have, and most likely it would be extremely hard to obtain. I think there is plenty of evidence.
Personally, it would have been better if you had written, "too bad that there is no funding to help you conduct the sort of investigative journalism necessary. Sad you have to do all this work for free just because you feel it is your moral obligation as an intellectual."
My article is far more concrete and documented than most crap out about China. I read Chinese and spent many hours talking to Chinese for this article. That much of the inside job cannot be readily documented is obvious. The fact that the background on 9.11 is not open to the public should not stop us from making educated guesses based on the scientific method.
Unfortunately, Sinophobia and xenophobia against China are very strong in the West, especially in France or among conservatives in the US, stronger than desire to find out the truth. I really saw things in the press like "In China, there is a model of a good citizen, based on denunciation and obedience to the rules". In the pandemic response, these people have an indestructible bias that what we have in the West - lockdowns, rules, obedience, totalitarian oppression, digital passes, QR codes, police terror, etc. - all of it is "Chinese" and we will all soon have a "social credit system". They are conditioned that our pandemic response' brutality, savagery and inhumanity is because China told us to do so. Because the WHO "followed the Chinese model".
No question there are wars going on within the CCP itself. You bet the west has infiltrated in the worst ways large portions of their governance and economy and banking. I guess we will see who wins out against these eugencists of the west who are determined to own, enslave all!
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
Godfree, you said "as far as I can see", are you in China? How do you know that this system is possible to see in any way at all?
It is very ineffective to believe something only if you have seen something like that. By that rule, many covert operations and many hidden tendencies simply never existed. It is also possible that the author has a strong intuition that is capable of synthesizing the events of several decades and arrive at a conclusion. As the popular saying goes, a talented scientist is the one who, by a single drop of water, can discern the existence of oceans.
There is also no doubt that the same billionaire elites are behind the destruction of culture in Europe. What is tragic, is that nearly no one notices it, except perhaps honest philosophers, writers and artists. The same process of barbarization and consumer addiction is happening in Russia and even in Iran. But Emanuel has already said that it is not a process of a couple of years or a couple of months. It is as slow as decades. In my observation, it started approx. in the 1970's. First in the United States.
I have lived in China and now live 2 hours from the border. I have written two books and hundreds of articles on China and publish a comprehensive weekly China update that central bankers seem to enjoy.
I meet with Chinese friends each week to compare news channels and interpretations.
I apologize if I seemed to be belittling you. However what you are saying about you reading books about China, does not signify that you can see beyond the appearances. Simply because in our times, the ability to discern a development or a system beyond obvious is ridiculed and called "conspiracy theory". There are tons of examples of "experts" who nevertheless cannot see beyond appearances. The great philosopher Giorgio Agamben had said: "What is striking about the reactions to the apparatuses of exception that have been put in place in our country (and not only in this one) is the inability to observe them beyond the immediate context in which they seem to operate. Rare are those who attempt to interpret them as symptoms and signs of a broader experiment — as any serious political analysis would require — in which what is at stake is a new paradigm for the governance of men and things." - he of course meant Italy, but the same can be said about China.
China has an elective emperor selected by mandarins and potentates, like the old Mongolian Khanate . . . The founder of the Yuan dynasty was Kublai Khan, who ordered all Buddhist temples in China to be led by the Shaolin Temple . . . eight princes during the Ming dynasty converted to Shaolin . . . China was primarily a Buddhist nation until the Mao Dynasty . . . Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism.
China has always been an empire, it has an elective emperor selected by mandarins and potentates, like the old Mongolian Khanate . . .
The vast majority of Chinese are Buddhists . . . The founder of the Yuan dynasty was Kublai Khan, who ordered all Buddhist temples in China to be led by the Shaolin Temple . . . eight princes during the Ming dynasty converted to Shaolin . . .
China was primarily a Buddhist nation until the Mao Dynasty . . . Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism.
Perhaps in Kung Fu movie world, the vast majority of Chinese are Buddhists but, in actual existing China they're not. They're totally cool with it, appreciate its POV, speak highly of the Buddha, have Buddhist icons around. But that's about it.
Their native spiritual tradition predates Buddhism and is more profound.
I have to agree with Godfree. What is the evidence? I see no evidence of such pervasive influence in China. Do Westerner entities have influence in China? Sure, but is more bottom up than top down. One example of this is the massive Western / Rockefeller Institute influence over China's public health bureaucracy. However, this is nothing particular to China. They have a similar influence all over the world.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
This blather is transparent fiction as to his allegations about modern times. The author has no names, dates, or places to offer to even try to substantiate anything he alleges.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
Dear Gayle..Your wise words are appreciated. In this new political reality we cannot make any progress until we are ready to sacrifice everything.
What you describe here is alien to what I observed in China. I am suggesting that the forces driving these campaigns for vaccination are not necessarily Chinese, and that Chinese are the victims. I also think there is reason to believe that the vaccines in China are less dangerous than in Europe or Japan. But there is no doubt that access is restricted for those who do not have vaccinated status--whether that means actual vaccination or not is another matter. Many working class people suffer.
I follow David Hawkins on www.patrion.com/reverseCSI on all of this. China has been a target of these globalists absolutely.
Excellent view on seeing this as the Third Opium War! Super information on a subject I have been confused by.
Great analysis!
The whole of the 3d war with ionising of the atmosphere is important. They are all trying to compete and appear to all be throwing their populations under the bus. I do thank you for your perspective on this. There are factions fighting within factions in all of these countries. We will win this. Even the most powerful and rich know they too will be sacrificed if the predators so wish to make it happen.
The debate over the future of China, represented here by Roberts and Pastreich, is not new, because, lacking hard evidence, there is considerable basis nonetheless for both sides. It began with the Nixon/Rockefeller/Kissinger opening to China, which benefited both China and Western transnational capital, but also carried risks for China of the Western financial and IT penetration that Pastreich describes. His description is plausible because it represents a process/playbook of Western imperial dominance that has occurred many times, updated in recent years with Information Technology. The same conflict is happening in Russia and other major global actors, like Iran and India. So, I think the debate is far from over, and that this exchange is therefore welcome. The risk is to take a hard line, for example Pepe Escobar's articles, in which the internal problems of actors in the emerging multipolar world are ignored, and Russia and China can do no wrong.
What a great and lively discussion. I appreciate your outline of the two opposing viewpoints in the article. I have noticed this too, and spend a good chunk of my 'background processing' trying to see the truth of the world before us. I had an office in Guangdong province from 2016 to 2018, and currently have several business associates still in the Shenzhen and Shanghai areas. I can relay without a doubt that forced quarantines are still real, daily PCR tests did happen, and that restriction of movement 'forced' many people into taking the vaccine. Many people fed themselves by organizing Wechat groups within their condo-complexes, so that vaccinated food-shop delivery people could enter their barred-and-guarded buildings. They were not allowed to leave. Mandatory 10 or 14 day restriction for a positive test, which we all know are about 50% wonky anyway. Wide variation of procedures depending on region.
Note that Sinovac was NOT mRNA...although i still wouldn't inject into my body, at least what the Chinese govt. / pharma produced was based on 'normal' vaccine methods. Also notable, a colleague in Shanghai who is currently restricted to her condo and suffering from Covid, is being given Paracetomol, and told by her doctor that Covid is just "a type of Flu." My belief is that this change of messaging is the govt. response to keeping the peace. Whether they didn't know until now, or had some other agenda, is difficult for me to speculate.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
There is arguably some truth to the overall analogy. However, a number of details are false, and in particular this statement which colors much of the article:
"The dystopian world that Whitehead describes in China, is beyond dispute."
Perhaps not in your part of the world, but that's only because there is no apparent interest in the Chinese reality. Instead, the China projection is based on random videos posted to Twitter plus an endless series of smears and lies in the official media. The truth: That dystopia is ~90% projection targeting Westerners, not Chinese.
Just to cite one detail you mention: Not only is vaccination not obligatory in China, China is the only industrialized country where it is actually illegal to coerce someone through whatever means into agreeing to vaccination.
For those interested to hear a Chinese perspective, we did a few deep dives on this topic last year:
https://austrianchina.substack.com/p/china-dystopia-psyop
And here: https://austrianchina.substack.com/p/china-dystopia-psyop-part2
I will check Chinese sources on this. I can say that vaccines are essentially manditory in China for ordinary people. I observed the process directly
And? Were your sources forcibly injected? Or forbidden access to various buildings due to their vaccination status, as was the norm in Europe? Not only have I never encountered such a situation anywhere in China, I have never even been asked about vaccination status by anyone. Moreover, for some reason a number of friends, colleagues, relatives and acquaintances seem to have had similar experiences. In our Shanghai office around half declined the injections. None have experienced any repercussions that I am aware of.
What you describe is not what I observed first hand. Working people are subject to such restrictions. The parasitic elite in Shanghai may not be.
I make no moral judgement about China, it is an empire... Xi is no president, he is an emperor chosen like the old Mongolian Khanate, by mandarins and potentates.
None (those who have refused vaccinations) have experienced any repercussions that you are aware of... Or, you are lying about... Somebody who says they're from China on the internet must have permission to be here... and are saying what they are told to say.
There is only one place in China I have great reverence for, and that is Shaolin. Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism. This is the Mao Dynasty for the time being. Dynasties come and go.
Very interesting take, thank you. It's so difficult to get these kinds of deeper insights into Asian politics without having to deal with one of the two camps of biases you mentioned. I really appreciate your perspective, please keep going.
I agree that the current Pfizer campaign resembles the Opium wars, but you then present sensational allegations about Western infiltration into Chinese governance without a shred of evidence.
What are your sources for your claim that, "China is subject to a massive campaign to destroy governance and to create a docile population subject to the whims of faceless powers who hide behind online systems masquerading as “government.” But that “communist government” turns out to be, if you scratch the surface, private contractors, Israeli, Japanese, American and other IT and intelligence firms, who have set up shop across China at the local level and are seizing control of government by privatizing all functions of government, using COVID-19 as the wedge to force everything online"?
As far as I can see, that's simply not happening.
Thank you for the comment. I suppose I could have put in a comment like "as related to me by a Chinese individual who wishes to be anonymous" or "I saw parallels between what is being done by Israeli IT firms in the US with what I observed over three weeks in China." But yes, the sort of concrete evidence I obviously do not have, and most likely it would be extremely hard to obtain. I think there is plenty of evidence.
Personally, it would have been better if you had written, "too bad that there is no funding to help you conduct the sort of investigative journalism necessary. Sad you have to do all this work for free just because you feel it is your moral obligation as an intellectual."
My article is far more concrete and documented than most crap out about China. I read Chinese and spent many hours talking to Chinese for this article. That much of the inside job cannot be readily documented is obvious. The fact that the background on 9.11 is not open to the public should not stop us from making educated guesses based on the scientific method.
Unfortunately, Sinophobia and xenophobia against China are very strong in the West, especially in France or among conservatives in the US, stronger than desire to find out the truth. I really saw things in the press like "In China, there is a model of a good citizen, based on denunciation and obedience to the rules". In the pandemic response, these people have an indestructible bias that what we have in the West - lockdowns, rules, obedience, totalitarian oppression, digital passes, QR codes, police terror, etc. - all of it is "Chinese" and we will all soon have a "social credit system". They are conditioned that our pandemic response' brutality, savagery and inhumanity is because China told us to do so. Because the WHO "followed the Chinese model".
3 OCT 2019 . . . Canadian government scientist under investigation trained staff at Level 4 Lab in [Wuhan] China
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/national-microbiology-lab-scientist-investigation-china-1.5307424
No question there are wars going on within the CCP itself. You bet the west has infiltrated in the worst ways large portions of their governance and economy and banking. I guess we will see who wins out against these eugencists of the west who are determined to own, enslave all!
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
Godfree, you said "as far as I can see", are you in China? How do you know that this system is possible to see in any way at all?
It is very ineffective to believe something only if you have seen something like that. By that rule, many covert operations and many hidden tendencies simply never existed. It is also possible that the author has a strong intuition that is capable of synthesizing the events of several decades and arrive at a conclusion. As the popular saying goes, a talented scientist is the one who, by a single drop of water, can discern the existence of oceans.
Pentagon in Wuhan: Whitney Webb. https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/bats-gene-editing-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/
DARPA man in Wuhan: https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/07/investigative-reports/darpas-man-in-wuhan/
There is also no doubt that the same billionaire elites are behind the destruction of culture in Europe. What is tragic, is that nearly no one notices it, except perhaps honest philosophers, writers and artists. The same process of barbarization and consumer addiction is happening in Russia and even in Iran. But Emanuel has already said that it is not a process of a couple of years or a couple of months. It is as slow as decades. In my observation, it started approx. in the 1970's. First in the United States.
I have lived in China and now live 2 hours from the border. I have written two books and hundreds of articles on China and publish a comprehensive weekly China update that central bankers seem to enjoy.
I meet with Chinese friends each week to compare news channels and interpretations.
That's as far as I can see.
Thank you for your comments. I am sure we can both watch China for decades and see something very different.
I apologize if I seemed to be belittling you. However what you are saying about you reading books about China, does not signify that you can see beyond the appearances. Simply because in our times, the ability to discern a development or a system beyond obvious is ridiculed and called "conspiracy theory". There are tons of examples of "experts" who nevertheless cannot see beyond appearances. The great philosopher Giorgio Agamben had said: "What is striking about the reactions to the apparatuses of exception that have been put in place in our country (and not only in this one) is the inability to observe them beyond the immediate context in which they seem to operate. Rare are those who attempt to interpret them as symptoms and signs of a broader experiment — as any serious political analysis would require — in which what is at stake is a new paradigm for the governance of men and things." - he of course meant Italy, but the same can be said about China.
China has an elective emperor selected by mandarins and potentates, like the old Mongolian Khanate . . . The founder of the Yuan dynasty was Kublai Khan, who ordered all Buddhist temples in China to be led by the Shaolin Temple . . . eight princes during the Ming dynasty converted to Shaolin . . . China was primarily a Buddhist nation until the Mao Dynasty . . . Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism.
The same may be said of those who interpret chicken entrails.
China has always been an empire, it has an elective emperor selected by mandarins and potentates, like the old Mongolian Khanate . . .
The vast majority of Chinese are Buddhists . . . The founder of the Yuan dynasty was Kublai Khan, who ordered all Buddhist temples in China to be led by the Shaolin Temple . . . eight princes during the Ming dynasty converted to Shaolin . . .
China was primarily a Buddhist nation until the Mao Dynasty . . . Falun Gong is repressed because it is an offshoot of Shaolin Buddhism.
Perhaps in Kung Fu movie world, the vast majority of Chinese are Buddhists but, in actual existing China they're not. They're totally cool with it, appreciate its POV, speak highly of the Buddha, have Buddhist icons around. But that's about it.
Their native spiritual tradition predates Buddhism and is more profound.
You're cum drunk.
I have to agree with Godfree. What is the evidence? I see no evidence of such pervasive influence in China. Do Westerner entities have influence in China? Sure, but is more bottom up than top down. One example of this is the massive Western / Rockefeller Institute influence over China's public health bureaucracy. However, this is nothing particular to China. They have a similar influence all over the world.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
This blather is transparent fiction as to his allegations about modern times. The author has no names, dates, or places to offer to even try to substantiate anything he alleges.
14 JUL 2019 . . . Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband, students escorted out of Canadian Level 4 lab in Winnipeg, removal of unauthorized material from Winnipeg to China, group involved in setting up Level 4 lab in Wuhan . . .
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567